Press Lounge

Asian Film Archive

Moderator: And today we have with us Tan Chui Mui, the Asian filmmaker, and she will be talking about her films as well as her experience in filmmaking in Malaysia and her recent film Love Conquers All has just premiered in The Picturehouse on Thursday and without further ado I leave it to the start of the session. Thank you.

Chui Mui: I think I will start with showing some of my short clips which Bee Thiam prepared.

Moderator: Sorry. I think many of us have met Bee Thiam the last session a fortnight ago and Bee Thiam has been one of the organisers for this session and do you have anything to say Bee Thiam?

Bee Thiam: Yah actually before I wanted to show some of the short films I thought of actually getting Mui to talk a bit more about how she started making films before we actually see some of her works.

Chui Mui: Okay (laughs). I guess I should talk abit more about the background of how this Malaysian film started or I don't know how many of you in fact know about these movement. If it is too much, then you can stop me, but I will start from all the way from the beginning, which is not so long ago. The first digital film was only made in year 2000 and before that the whole history of Malaysian film was only Malay film and in year 2000 Amir Muhammad, he was the first one who make a.. he's the one who call it 'independent film' to attract attention and to really tell the whole movement and it was very successful. It's like he spent like 80,000 Ringgit, that's like 40,000 Singapore dollars to make a film with twenty plus, like quite non-theatre people and his idea was the main cast should not be more famous than him, so he casted, because he don't want it to be, if he gets someone like Patrick Teo it would be a Patrick Teo film but he want it to be Amir Muhammed film. So he got the less famous James Lee to be the main cast. And the film become very successful because all these theater actors, they have a lot of connection and fans or followers and they all come to see. In fact he get back the profit and he sent to a lot of film festivals in the world and he travelled like more than thirty film festivals in that time. And then, everyone else, like when we see the film we are like, “Oh my God, the film is so bad and it can travel thirty film festivals. I'm sure I can make a better film." And I think that's how James Lee started and it's like after he acted in Amir's film, he didn't get any acting jobs anymore. So he started to direct films with only very low budget because he has experience in theatre performance and he has experience with TV dramas, he can do the camera himself and he acted it himself and so he could do it like with only 10,000 Ringgit. He make his first film called Snipers which is also very bad, and then he made another one called Ah Beng Returns, which I think is one of my favourite James Lee films and at that time it was Phillip Chia from Singapore Film Festival that really, really liked James work and showed it. Actually Phillip Chia rejected Amir's work, which then from Singapore Film Festival James also got more attention and when he got to Room To Let, his third film, he was invited to Rotterdam Film Festival and at that time the programmer of Rotterdam Film Festival saw there's something happening in Malaysia or in Southeast Asia in general so he travelled to Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia and looked for more film and in year 2005 he had a programme called Southeast Asian Eye, which is like the first programme that is really focused on Southeast Asian Film. And in fact, it attract so.. before that, maybe the people only know about film from Thailand, or maybe Indonesia, but they don't see that much film from Malaysia. It's like a virgin land that they're like, "Are there people making film there?", and then from then on actually we get a lot of special programme on Malaysia. I think even before that of course like Singapore Film Festival or the Sydney Fan in New Delhi they also have some Malaysian programme but I think the real attention started when Rotterdam also did it. That was how it started but the whole thing of working together, it really started with Amir and James, and it's like how Amir and James of their personality is they really help the young filmmaker. When they go to film festivals, they will bring like the new short films from the other filmmaker or the new film from other filmmaker or when they see like someone who could actually do. They actually help us a lot in bringing our work out or getting equipment or the earlier film of James Lee actually is funded by Amir and when Amir is making his documentary, The Big Durian, which is ___ (06:29), James was the one producing and he get me as like a second camera unit and he get Woo Ming Jin, another filmmaker, as the cameraman, and Deepak Kumaran Menon as the graphic artist, and that is the first like we really have like a filmmaker team. Everyone actually wants to be a director but we work for each other. Like Amir Muhammed said, "When we don't have money, we might as well have friends." So in a way, because we don't have money, we just help each other and we take turns producing, directing, acting, editing and that's how we started to have a group and fortunately until today we still don't have money so we still stay as friends and also another situation in Malaysia is it's such a racial country like we always say Malaysia is a multi-racist country, we just don't like each other and we have this thing like, according to our law is to be defined as a Malaysian film because to be a Malaysian film in fact you have the right of choosing whatever cinema you want to show your film, we call it 'wajib tayang'. When you have a local film status, you can just choose cinema that you want to show your film and you doesn't need to pay entertainment tax. But to be a Malaysian film it need to be a film made like 70% owned by Malaysian production, 70% shot in Malaysia and the 70% of the language used must be in Malay, which means like when I make my film, James' film, or Deepak's film, it's not considered Malaysian film and we have to pay entertainment tax, and when we show it in cinema it's under the international cinema. So it's very hard for us to get like government support and we always have to like just do it ourselves and even though Amir Muhammed is, but he makes so many controversial films and it's like, always get banned in Malaysia. The good thing about Malaysia government is they ban the film but it's only in Malaysia, the film is still allowed to travel out. So we can still show it everywhere in the world except Malaysia and which for us is fine and if in a way they are quite relaxed it's like when we, before we shoot the film we need to apply a permit, shooting permit, and when we apply the, Amir had already made The Last Communist, it was banned, and Village People Radio Show it was banned again, and now he just shot a new documentary about, in fact it's about Reformasi, about our former deputy Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim and when we applied the permit the people just say, “Yah I can give you, but you know it's going to get banned anyway.” Amir is very optimistic and we just think, yah why not, he would just be the first filmmaker in the world who had a banned trilogy in his own country and we can come out a boxset which we think is not a bad idea. So basically, that's kind of like how this group of jokers, no, this group of losers, that we all then form together to have a company together. So me, Amir, James and also this young filmmaker, who was actually my ex-classmate, and which we all think he don't really have the potential of making box office. We like his work a lot and four of us, we formed Da Huang Pictures. It's more like because to show your film in Malaysia you have like, you need to have legal shooting permit, censorship and all that so to make everything legalized we formed a company, but now we really think is was a good idea to have this company to actually push things and to make things more accessible to the public. So, I would first show you, maybe of this young filmmakers' work that I like. His name is Liew Seng Tat and this one he showed during because he was helping Amir to shoot a documentary Village People Radio Show in South of Thailand. There were four of them: Amir, Albert Hu (211:49) - the cinematographer, Danny Lim, he's the still photographer and him, and there was this guy that they interviewed, who is the only multi-media guy in the village who know a bit about video and internet, and they become quite close with him and last day of the shoot and Seng Tat think that since they are in a very nice place, they really love the place and a character they like and they have the video camera and they still have tape to waste which is in company money. So they just shoot something spontaneously, and in the end it turned out very nice and I like it alot.

[Man In Love is played]

Title - Man In Love.

(translation from Malay to English): My Love. Look at how happy those children are playing. Isn't it nice if we have children just like them? My Love? My Love? Hey… Oh dear! It's been 24 hours you are still sleeping. If you want to sleep, please do it decently. Legs spreaded apart, how improper. I haven't been able to defecate for 20 days. Now my stomach is bloated. My Love? My love, I'm worried. When are you going to speak to your husband about us?

Cast: Man in love - Ibrahim Yaakob, Sayang - Danny Lim & Liew Seng Tat. Executive Producer - Amir Muhammad. Camera - . Sound -- Hardesh Singh. Directed by - Liew Seng Tat.

Chui Mui: Then now I'm going to show a short film that, this so far is still my best film that I make in the year 2004, it's my short film. I'm going to show you the last scene of it, it's called A Tree in Tanjong Malim. Like when, before I make this film I was still quite new and.. [clip from A Tree in Tanjong Malim starts]

(translation from Mandarin to English):

Boy: Hey! Happy Birthday! I wish you a long and prosperous life. I wish you a joyous birthday. I wish you a lifetime of happy returns. Congratulations! Congratulations. Tell you a joke. Mr. Panda… his biggest wish in life…is to see a colour photograph of himself. Girl: Would you ever fall for me? Boy: Give me a break. Take a good look at yourself. You're not even grown. There is no way I could fall for you. I'm old enough to be your father. Girl: Yeah, that's right… uncle. Boy: Isn't it great to be young? You get to tease old fogies like me. Girl: I wouldn't dare. Boy: Everytime we meet, you must think… that I'm aging fast. It's my misfortune to have met you. Girl: The misfortune is all mine. Boy: I was arrogant too when I was young. But as I got older… Don't even know what on earth I'm doing. Old and penniless… Pathetic. Girl: You aren't that bad. Boy: The woman I want most… just got married. Girl: I missed my stop on the bus this morning. Ended up in the middle of nowhere. There was a tree by the side of the road. White flowers constantly falling… the flowers were thin like serviete. Boy: You'd already told me earlier. Girl: I was thinking… Even if I failed to get to where I wanted to go… I get to see beauty anyway. Boy: Tan Chui Mui, What the hell do you know?

Cast: Pete Teo as The Beautiful Loser, Foo Fei Ling as The Girl. With Kind Assistance of Yasmin Ahmad. Cameo - Deepak Kumaran Menon as The Stranger At The Stairway. Director Of Photography - Albert Hue. Music by Zhang 43, 3/4, L'etranger. By Permission, taiwan colors music, http://www.tcmusic.com.tw . Art Director - Sylvia Ong. Subtitles by Pete Teo, Ho Yuhang. Produced by Deepak Kumaran Menon. Written and Directed by Tan Chui Mui. Special Thanks - James Lee, Hardesh Singh, Tan Teck Siew, Tan Chue Hing, Tan Leang Lee, Chen Lin Long, Nyu Ka Jin, Onehundredeye, Red Comm

Chui Mui: (probably in response to some inaudible comment) I will put that later, it's not my favourite.. Yah, I guess we could open for some question first?

Moderator: Thank you very much, that was a great discussion/ presentation. Maybe we'll, is there any question to start off with?

Dr. Stephen Teo: Just concerning that last scene, I mean that last sequence that you showed which you said is your favourite film, was it A Tree in Tanjong Malim. I noticed the boy saying the name of the girl Tan Chui Mui, so that obviously must be autobiographical in some way.

Chui Mui: Yah, I call this film my fictional autobiography of my youth. It's just because in the end of course it's the personal argument, and it was more to discuss about the anxiety I had at that time. I was aged 25 but I was already thinking, am I going somewhere in life? Am I going to make it? And that, like this whole short film is in fact about a girl of 17 who is full of hope, and a man of 34 who's bitter, frustrated with life and because we are only showing the last scene but it is clear he doesn't think he is useful anymore, he don't think his life, I mean, he is going anywhere anymore. But it's more like both is actually a fictional style of an argument between them. I guess after all this, in the end what I can only think is I was only 25 and really what the hell do I know and that is the only thing. I guess if I really wanted to argue about how it would be I do realize how little I know and I should really know that it could make clear, I don't really know that much about life and that is what I could say only, so I end with that.

Dr. Teo: Can I just follow on? The sequence is quite impressive because it is done in one long take. That seems to be like a signature of a lot of the Malaysian new wave filmmakers, in order to do everything in one long take nothing much is seen except people talking and so on. I just want to ask you, why do you have this fondness for shooting in one long take and also why, I mean how do you decide on shooting a scene in one long take for instance, or shooting it in that particular angle. Why don't you go closer, for example? So how do you make that kind of decision, to shoot it in that angle and do it in one long take, and also did you rehearse the two actors alot because there is a lot of dialogue and it's impressive in that sense that they are acting naturally, but they are speaking alot of lines as well. So, did u do a lot of rehearsal?

Chui Mui: I'll answer the second question first, it's easier. We had three nights of rehearsal and I was very much a script person, in fact it's word by word they must follow the script and I will tell them how to speak. I'm quite particular about dialogue and the way a character speak, and so that we take alot of practice. And the take just now was the take 17, I think. We do like 20 takes of this long scene. So in the end in fact, they really could speak it so naturally and it is also because it is really getting too long and late, and that they have this sense of tiredness which really help the timing and yeah but it's really word by word following the script. And it really takes a lot of practice. And to go back to the first question, is very much, in the beginning, we don't have actor for film. We, for a long time we don't have Chinese film industry so there are Chinese TV drama or Chinese theatre, and their acting is very big. Or also we have non-actor and in fact these two are very different, the people who don't have acting experience or the people who act too big, but they have the same way of showing it. That's why we could pull out and give them the distance. For the theatre actor then you don't see their expression is too much or their action is too much and for a non-actor you give them the enough distance. And this is in the beginning when we make films, that is a way we could work well with actor. It's a very.. quite sensible solution for us. Like James, he work with theatre actors alot. So he also use this way, and with me I use a non-actor a lot and I also use this way. So does Yuhang, he use non-actor and then it becomes something like we all also use although the reason is different. It does help when you give a distance when you use non-professional actor or a theatre actor. When you go too much of a close-up, unless you have someone who could really have a screen presence and who could hold the screen or else when you go too close-up, and when you see the awful acting.. yah, I'm sorry to say. But sometimes, it's quite hard when you're directing and I think it takes a few years to really build acting talent. And now we have, like when we have a few actors but they are from different background and they still don't really share the same type of acting, for me is easier to go far. But, another thing also with me is I like the sense of the time when I don't cut it and you really get the timing. The sense of time for me is important. So I also like a long take because of that, and the long shot was more of more of the acting performance and giving the space. And it's not like all my films are this way, I tried to do close-ups and cuts sometime, but in the end when I look back I still like this short film the best. Mainly because of the timing and the space I've given. I tried to do something else, like I tried in other short films having cut and close-ups. And probably I don't have the skill. But it didn't look good, and I don't like it.

Audience: In credit to Yasmin Ahmad, could u say something about her involvement in the film?

Answer: Yeah, I wanted to say it just now. Because I was young and I was still new and this is like, I want to make a short film really with actors, so I'm thinking I should pay some salary, and so I was just erm.. Yasmin seen some of my short film before this and she liked them and so I just sms-ed her and asked “Yasmin, would you like to sponsor my short film?”, and she just replied and said “Yes, how much?”, and I replied her and said, “$2,000?” and then she just replied and said “Yes, come and get it.” She didn't even ask me for my script or the story. She just had so much trust. That's the thing about the.. we are really supportive of each other and I think is for her she think is nice to see someone like so keen to make a good film or somthing. So she really helped and without asking much, and because of that when I won award in Oberhousen two years ago and I have some price money, so at first I thought of giving back the money to her but then I don't think she would want it. And then I give my prize money, part of the, I give some money to other short filmmakers to make their own short films. And then this thing in a way become like a pattern so when I win prize money last year again in Pusan, and I put the prize money to make the first feature film of Liew Seng Tat. And again his film is in competition in Pusan this year. So we hope it's like a circle thing and which I think that helps a lot of. We do think like sometimes money is a problem. But, when you have money it could also be a problem. But now what we do is when we have money, we try to help others. I don't know how long this would last, but yah..

Audience: I quite appreciate your short film. I think it's quite a heroic effort in that straight jacket environment/ condition that you were in, to have the courage to make that film, and the film itself, I think, tells alot about the life of the people in that situation. And as you, in your introduction, you talked about the conditions and the straight jacket sort of constraint that you have in your country. And I feel, for a filmmaker or a producer if you like, I think I may have some friends from Europe perhaps, or France, I think for a filmmaker, I think that the greatest aspiration if you like is the French ligarite(?) (437:11), liberte(?) (437:13), ecarite(?) (437:15) and fraternity(?) (437:15). So, if you don't have that quality, or condition to make a film, and you feel quite, I don't know how to put it, in my view there is no sense in making films in that kind of situation. I wonder if you would look for a greener pasture, perhaps in your surrounding countries. In Singapore for example, we have abit of a blockbuster if you like, you know our Jack Neo had a film and he called it 'I Not stupid'. I think I have wasted the title of the film instead he could have reflected on a different expect of society in Singapore. I think it's a pity that he has dealt with another set of situation. In my view, he could have used that title to reflect the bilingualism in Singapore. For example, there are alot of local Chinese or Singaporeans or Chinese ancestry who feel quite proud about monolingualism. For example, myself included, what I'm trying to say is that Jack Neo could have used that title to reflect more deeply about our concerns in Singapore about bilingualism, in other words, we should not be too proud about monolingualism. Instead we should.. (interrupted by Prof. Chua and moderator). Okay.. I have put the question already before, if you have a chance, would you consider looking for greener pasture?

Chui Mui: Thanks. In fact that's always a question that's asked many Malaysian filmmakers, especially Amir Muhammad because his film always gets banned in Malaysia, and also to James Lee or Ho Yuhang. I guess most of us we have the same complex, I don't know why we all feel like we want to stay in Malaysia, we don't like our government but we love the country. It's like we know maybe we could try to have better chance elsewhere, but it's just something about Malaysia that we really like to live there and make film from there, and yeah it's just strange and for me I don't know why, in fact we complain so much about Malaysia, but in the end when you ask, if you ask us to leave we can't do it, we just feel like we want to just stay there, to make stories from there.

Moderator: You know, the grass is always greener the other side. Next question.

Audience: Two questions. Just now you talked about Malaysian film in terms of the people who are doing it and so there's a community, there's people helping each other, so that's a very nice portrayal of Malaysian filmmakers in that sense. But let me ask you if you have to characterize Malaysian films in term of all films you all have done, are there any common features in terms of the content, or in terms of the aesthetic, that means the way of looking at, the way of shooting? So what binds Malaysian films together?

And the second question, which maybe is abit similar to the question asked earlier is that, if we invite you to make a film in Singapore, do you have the heart to do it because I think what I see in your films is abit of heart in it. And so, and why you just now you said that you like to stay in Malaysia because you love your country so. So can you then like just be here for a year and make a film? What would it be like? What is your aesthetics, the way of looking, and then what is your content?

Chui Mui: I see. Okay, the first question actually is abit hard because it's still hard to say what is Malaysian film, it's the same when we want to say what is Taiwanese film or what is Chinese film, there are so many different films and if you say Malaysian films as in our group, this group of us like Amir Muhammad, James Lee, Yasmin Ahmad, in a way we all are quite different. Maybe me, James Lee, Ho Yuhang, Woo Ming Jin, we share a certain type of the atmosphere in the film or the character, you know. In a way four of us, we do have getting(?) (43:13) category like we do, we look abit like too much of Tsai Ming Liang's influences, but which is very easy to put it, because whenever people say of Malaysian film that they could easily associate it like Tsai Ming Liang but I don't think our influences.. I think James he has influence also from David Lynch, or from Bruno Dumont, or from Hong Sang Su. In fact there are a lot of them but it's very easy for a journalist or a film critic who use Asian film to, it's some very direct association to say we look like Tsai Ming Liang. But in fact we have a lot more references but indeed four of us we share the same taste of film, we do like the same type of films. But Amir, his film is very different from us, it's totally, also he has more humour in it. He's very funny. I think we all, there's even comments saying he is the funniest filmmaker in the world. Or at least the funniest Muslim filmmaker in the world. That has to be, that must be. I'll just show you, this is the website of Da Huang, of the company, dahuangpictures.com. And we have, in fact now we have even more films. On the top are all the films we made. And there are two more coming soon, and before I go into this, I'll answer the second question.

Of the possibility of making films elsewhere. Before this I was also in Paris for a Cannes residency like four and a half months and I did also consider that if I could actually stay in Europe and make film there and I did even also make a short film in Paris for fun with friends and it does work but it is hard for me there in Paris because I do have problem with language. I tried to learn French but… So, that for me is quite important. But Singapore is very possible because it is still very similar to Malaysia, or at least I could share the same language and almost the same culture, but it's just that… Unless because of the funding required or other things but since its so similar, why would I want to make films in Singapore and why not Malaysia? It's possible but only if I have the story or… Yah, I could consider that but if the proposal is tempting enough. But, I also thought of like possibility of making films in China or in Taiwan which there is also funding available and.. that really depends on how the proposal goes and if there is a story there. Then yah, everything is possible.

Moderator: Your films may be banned in Singapore. Next question from that row.

Audience: It's just interesting cause I saw Love Conquers All last night and I really enjoyed it. I mean, I was struck by the similarities between scenes in that and the scene in the shot you just showed us. Right, and I'm curious about these scenes, which for me are very powerful, and they take place at night, which must be quite difficult to film to start with, right? So there's a choice being made there. And after this it seems that what you're dramatizing is a certain kind of communication between people which isn't quite communication. It's people talking past each other, they're not looking at each other, they're in their own world. And they are making some kind of connection with each other and yet there's also a sense of they're telling stories for themselves as well. And I just wondered whether, am I picking up here on something of importance or interest to you. Because I do find, without sort of analyzing it too much, I do find those scenes extremely powerful and I'm not quite sure why so I'm trying to explore that and think through it.

Chui Mui: I'm also not quite sure if I got your question. But when people ask me why I make film, I could only say in Chinese but I don't know if I can translate it.

(Comment that he understands Mandarin so Mui rattles off something in Mandarin, which another audience member tries to translate)

Audience: You can communicate, but the communication may be very limited, or the things that we can say to each other may not be alot, or, may not be sufficient or much?

Bee Thiam: What we can express and communicate in words is limited.

Chui Mui: I don't know, it's more like.. I don't know if I answered your question with that but I do find a difficulty in communication, I find alot of difficulty in getting people to understand and I always felt misunderstood, and I also think I misunderstand others. And in fact it's something they could never come across, you can only be alone. No one can really understand. I think that in the end there's the thing about no matter how great filmmaker you are, how good a writer you are, in the end, I don't know.. in fact no one can fully understand you. There's always misunderstanding. Sometimes through misunderstandings people like you. Also true! I guess most of the time love happens through misunderstanding. I think the relationship of human beings, between human beings, there's alot of misunderstandings and sometimes you think you understand someone when you know them longer. But in the end, again you don't know, in fact you don't understand each other, or you felt you are not understood and there is something eternally unsolved. You really can't do it, I think. How good a filmmaker are, in the end I guess not everything you want to tell can come across. Yah, so..

Moderator: Next question.

Audience: There's a lot of public debate right now in Malaysia about racial unity, and Malaysia being an Islamic state. Do you intend to produce any films or short films to pacify the situation, the climate now? And if yes, how resistant do you think the government would be, or you know, cause they're not so supportive to anything that's remotely related to Amir Mohammad, or sensitive issues? If you make a film to bridge the divide do you think you're gonna achieve your objective?

Chui Mui: I am someone, I myself I don't look so highly of my film. I don't think it's so, it could do that much of really bridging or really helping any situation. But like Yasmin Ahmad, she's really doing some.. I guess she has very strong films that try to bridge the gap between different races. She's telling alot about relationships between each other and I'm not that much.. I don't think I could really do it with my film and it's still too… I guess for me I can't imagine my film to have a function, or to really tell something.

Audience: I just wanna backtrack a little bit to the technical questions that we were dealing with earlier. And with this short film, I was wondering if your decision-making around lighting has to do with something other than your desire to work with natural lights. Because I know you share that in common with James Lee as well, even though he wasn't the _____ (52.57) Did you, apart from the long takes and the long shots, did you also deliberately not use any use any lightings to light up their facial expressions when they were speaking, like Pete Teo was very hard to see. And then yesterday, I went to see James Lee's picture, the black and white one..

Chui Mui: Before We Fall in Love?

Audience: Yeah, at the high school. And you couldn't see it, I mean you just couldn't see it. The students were running around the high school trying to get black plastic bags to hang on the windows to block out the light. Cause you couldn't see the faces and the two protagonists in that film happened to be _____ (53:46), and wearing glasses and the same outfits.

Chui Mui: Yah, I designed it that way.

Audience: Yeah, I get that feeling. But so with this particular piece that you showed us this clip, was that deliberate or you didn't want to show..

Chui Mui: No, it's not really intentional. And that is a problem with digital video. And you really need a high contrast, very bright, you have higher lumien projectors to show night scenes. Or else you have it going very muddy. And yeah, that's the problem we do have and it's quite hard to show it not with a good projector in a really dark room. Yah, so we do have problems with night scenes when you want to see. There's still technical problems, I must admit.

Audience: I wasn't sure if that was another deliberate decision on your part..?

Chui Mui: No, I do want it to be dark, but you could check it. When you want to show a dark scene in the night, you really need to have a very dark theatre with bright projector then you could see the detail. With video it's very difficult to do night scene. I really like night scenes but I have problems creating the scene. And the problem of showing this A Tree In Tanjong Malim. In a situation where there is still some light, it's quite difficult to show the detail. But also yah, with the video it's not so sharp.

Audience: I mean you could still sort of guess, but I have to.. I mean in this screening situation I sort of find myself impulsing my imagination on him and the words, you know, to get them towards the head? You know so it wasn't a big problem to figure what was going on but…

Chui Mui: Yeah.. Of all the festivals screening, the best festival is still Rotterdam because they really have people who are specialized in digital video projection. So they do really know what type of projector they want, and that was like the best screening I had. It's like a big hall, with like more than 500 people. And the projection is still as good as film, it's a big screen projection with, actually it's digital video. And so in fact, it's possible the technology now to show digital video clearly. But I guess it might take a few for both the camera and the projections system to improve. But this is what we can do now and we also need to improve our technical level.

Moderator: Next question.

Audience: I really like what you say in Mandarin just now where there's really no common understanding even though there's a lot of communication going on between two people. So that really helps me to understand your man and the girl talking at the bus stop alone and all that. So that might well be the way to look at your film. Instead of looking for meaning between one lot (57:13), meaning separately, alone, self-expression, I don't know, but another thing is it's very similar to Taiwan, Taiwanese film like you say, had it not been the Cantonese song, the Malay prayers, and all that. Otherwise I would have mistaken it as a Taiwanese film.

Yeah, so I'm sorry, but it's very similar. I can see this, lots of Tsai Ming Liang and lots of even Zero Leong's long shots going on. But, I like what you said that, it's more of individual meaning, verbalisations than communication. Thank you.

Chui Mui: Yeah, but when I show it in Taiwan, the people, the people would think, in fact they recognise quickly that there's incurred in their descriptional review they say they speak Malaysian Chinese, or Malay Chinese. So, in fact yah, it also can't be mistaken as Taiwanese, in that way.

Audience: But then what about Hokkien, Teochew and other dilacts of Chinese, can't they be there?

Chui Mui: In Taiwan, the people don't speak Mandarin this way. In fact, somehow Malaysian Chinese, it sounds abit Cantonese, yah.

Audience: My question is why just the Cantonese song? Why not other Hokkien, or is there a preference or what?

Professor Chua Beng Huat: Cause KL is predominantly Cantonese.

Audience: But Tanjong Malim in the background, you know? It's Perak.

Chui Mui: It's very much popular, or the popular culture is very much Honkie or, of that time. It's very much Cantonese.Yes?

Audience: I'm sure you've produced The Gravel Road, right? How did that come about? Do you want to talk about that? Because I was really touched by that film, I saw it two years ago, here, cause that was a film that was very dark, shot alot at night.

Chui Mui: Yeah, we also have the same problem when we have projection, because it's like it's in a rubber estate, it's dark and..

Audience: It worked for me because I felt that the story was very strong, so you forgave these things. I think when the content or the storyline is very strong, you can forgive things like that, because you do fill it in in your head.

Chui Mui: Yes, it also was quite difficult, I think it's the whole history of this Malaysian independent film, we always have problem with money and I was the producer and Deepak was my ex-classmate as well. We were very close and we worked together and it was what he wanted, to make a feature film, and that was not the initial idea but one day we sit down and with his mother, and his mother told us this story of when she was in high school and she wanted to study and she had a fight with her mother because the family did not have the money to support her and she scolded the mother, ''If you don't have the money why did you give birth to so many children?'' And the mother slapped her and she ran away from her house, and that night the mother actually poisoned herself. But was saved. So I was like " Oh my god.. all these family dramas are real. For Indians it's like, "But I thought these are all drama. But it's really a real story and when I heard this story in fact I was very touched and I asked her "Can you write this story for us as a film script?" And so the mother actually wrote the script, and I have my father to put in some money and Deepak's father to put in, I think the whole idea we started was we wanted to make a film that our parents could watch. And so... Because we've been making films that we're so embarrased to show our family.. so we.. yes.. I always thought.. because my family know I'm making film and all that, but when they ask to see our film we always feel shy to show them and that was the initial idea, that we make a film that our parents can watch, but they have to put in their money. Yah so.. when it started we shot it like in 12 days and we worked everyday from 5 in the morning to 1 in the morning. We sleep like 3 hours per day and yah, it's very difficult but we really had a good time making that film. And.. it was really not easy, there are some arguments here and there. But I don't know, I do have a sense, it's like when we were trying to get money and all that, people were telling us that no one is going to go to cinema and watch an Indian film. All the Indians, they are going to stay at home and they just watch tv. And in the end when we show it, we went to one of the screenings and, because the screening is in a shopping mall and they don't normally get Indian audience, for Indian films they normally are in other individual cinema, and we do see like people who don't go into these shopping malls before, they walked in one by one, the cinema was full with people that you assume they would not come, very like people in their 60s, 70s or really young people. So it was really a touching moment for us when people indeed they do come to see..

(end of disc 1)

(translation): Old man: Girl. I need your help. I have a terrible headache. We change seat? Girl: Sure. Just leave, it's OK. Chui Mui: Do you feel carsick? Do you feel like a headache? Change your seat. Yah, that's all about my long film, that was my favourite scene and then.. then you no need to see the rest anymore .Was, yah I don't know , there's nothing much, I just, when I finished the film I didn't like it that much, yeah. But it got quite some recognition, and now I'm a bit confused. I don't know how many of you have seen thia film or, yeah I don't know if you have anything to ask.Yes? This question. Question: Pertaining to this particular scene only ( I learnt my lesson!), well, could you introduce something to deviate the boredom, if you like. You know that lady, young lady and an old gentleman, Indian gentleman sitting, and I think the Indian gentleman said something about he was feeling unwell or something. And he wanted to change place, exchange place with you. Now, and from the beginning to the end, it seems to me, it's a little boring, if you don't mind my saying so. Chui Mui: Yes, I can understand. Audience: So could you introduce something to break the boredom? You see, I don't know whether audience friends here feel the same way. But I feel that there is a little thought beneath that. Because you may have a meaning there, you were trying to, I guess, you were trying to suggest that life itself is boxed in to that situation, and on the whole I would think that you could have broken the boredom by introducing some little action or something like that. Thank you. Chui Mui: Thanks. But I guess that is not a question, right; it's more like a comment. Yah I could also say that, when I edit indeed the whole film there are also more of these type of boring scenes, that it seems too long. Yah and it's quite often I get comments of "Why do you have a scene that's too long?", and "Why did you make a boring film?" And it's quite difficult for me to answer because when I cut it, it's very much I follow my own rhythm and pacing. And I tend to like, or I tend to be comfortable with this type of pacing. For me when it is too fast, it is too violent for me and I can't take it. So I guess it's just a different pacing of individuals. And I can't do it like, I can't do it the other way, I have to follow my own comfortable pacing. So it's something, I can only apologize but I can't really change it. Audience: I was just thinking when I was watching that sequence of course, you know, people who know Malaysia, who have seen in this case. You have alot of baggage in your head about the history of say, Indians in the country and so on and so forth. Which international audience wouldn't have necessarily, I mean, they might or they might not. So, as a filmmaker do you feel that sometimes people who know Malaysia are priviledged in a sense when they watch your films? Or even though they may have an international appeal, there's still a little something extra that you get? Chui Mui: I'm not sure if I get the question. Audience: Well for example, sometimes if you watch a film set in South of the United States, I was watching ____ (09:50) in Holland for example, so they had subtitles. It's impossible to translate, to subtitle a Southern American accent, and carry with it the baggage that goes with it when people talk in that kind of a way. So the Dutch audience could appreciate, who couldn't, and they wouldn't have been able to, it was a very thick accent. So they could appreciate the story, but they were missing out in a sense, on what the filmmaker had wanted to convey by setting it in the South and by having his character speak in that kind of way. So do you see what I'm asking, you know, that in a sense making the films in Malaysia, setting them in Malaysia, having Malaysian actors, they have international appeal but there's also something other. Chui Mui: Yes, I do think there is a danger of believing things could be clearly delivered or communicated through a medium, and yah I do always, for me I don't think the audience need to get everything, I don't think they really need to do research and understand what is Malaysia's background, or why there are Indian in Malaysia or why there are Chinese in Malaysia or, to see a film. It's also like travelling, it's also like making friends, but for me to have the idea of thinking you could understand everything, or you should let the audience understand everything, is quite a dangerous one, or to make them believe that you're telling them everything. And I, I think that I always make clear, or like what I said just now when I make film I don't think between each other we could really understand each other. That is what I really believe in communication and in the end, you are the only one who understands. And I'm very much conscious about it, and in fact the first scene, in the first scene as I explained to my audience yesterday, why there's the distance is very much like my opening speech, of I want to make a first feature film but there're so many things happening that are quite, there are more urgent thing to tell and to make film about, but I want to make a film about a young girl, and in this opening scene you see an old man which definitely has more story to tell, who suffers more, who has more burden, and he even look like Mohammad Ghandi. And you do see him first more dominant in the frame, and then he has a headache and he wants to change seat, and he gives the seat to the young girl, and that is how I begin the story. It's like, "Mr Ghandi can you move over and now I'm going to tell the story of this young, innocent girl." And this is the thing that I just have fun myself when I watch the scene, I amuse myself and it's more like something that I.. most of the time when I make film, that's why sometimes I have this guilty complex because I know I had the fun myself. That's why I don't mind suffering with no money, no audience, but I really enjoy and I enjoy some scenes myself in making them and yah I don't even ever imagine this thing is made clear to the audience, and it's not important, and I'm sorry but it's.. Audience: I like your film, I really _____(14:00) just now. So, until today, because I come to this seminar I get to know you, you have a very good film. So do you want to try to recommend to more like, outside people like the public, have you tried before? Maybe then you can get some funds. Chui Mui: For Singapore? Audience: Even Singapore, Malaysia or all over the world. Chui Mui: Yah, I guess the problem with Malaysian filmmaker or the bottleneck we having now is everyone want to be director, or everyone want to make film but we don't really have time to do marketting or publicity, and it's very nice like people like Bee Thiam who are organizing all these events and I really feel like, sometimes I don't know are all these people so nice. Like, doing things but to help to, like they really like some art and they want to promote it, and in fact there are alot of people like this and it's very hard for the filmmaker themselves to do the publicity and marketting and we are trying that in Malaysia but we really, sometimes we feel very frustrated because when you are doing publicity, which means you don't have time to make your next film, and it's always a difficult situation which really put time and doing or making, and now what I'm doing is I'm actually helping Liew Seng Tat to do the marketting and the festival plan and the publicity of his first feature film, which yah in the end I think since no one else really doing it Malaysia and myself I just take it and try to play another role. And yah, sometimes you really don't know if it's a good decision but I'm trying to do it. Audience: This has been a really good Q & A, but I kinda just for a second wanna take Chui Mui out of the hot seat and bring it back to the conveners of this Round Table because it's sort of publicized as "looking at film from an academic point of view and how this can be developed into film theories", and I'm not an academic writer, I'm a writer but not an academic writer. I'm rather interested in how academics think of this session and what they can gain from it, and how they would take this sort of conversation and put it into their own writing practice. Meaning like, this film is so new, this whole development is so new, the idea of turning it into a subject for academia already seems to me, I don't know, pioneering or too soon, you know? I mean, I don't know, and I don't really know how if there were any academics left in the room how they'd go about their work when they're looking at film so young in a country, and what sort of discussion would academics wanna have about these clips, vis-a-vis film theory. Another audience: Well, she's not an academic, she can't answer that question. Prof. Chua/ Moderator: No, she's leaving it to the rest of the floor.. Audience: No I'm not asking Chui Mui. Chui Mui: Not me. Audience: I mean like normal Q & As are more like this, you know with the lay audience, but this is maybe a roomful of academics and I just wonder how, you know, their approach to Q & A is different, or what's going on in people's minds vis-a-vis writing about Malaysian film from an academic standpoint. Moderator: Like he said, academics like to try out things. Audience: I don't write about really, I mean I don't write about film, I'm here as an interested academic. But I think what's interesting to me about it is that there are two different things, I mean I'm the sort of person who works with methods(?) (18:05), alright? And so I think what's always very interesting for me is two kind of different issues. One is that kind of relationship with the social world. And the second one is the aesthetic __ (18:13), and how those two intermingle, right? So what's the, why am I coming to all these different sessions, right? Why am I interested in doing this when it's not really central to what I do, I think because for me this is very exciting because it's a new kind of filmmaking, it's distributed in a different kind of way, it's done by kind of different people, there's some kind of different voice or mode of representing going on there. Will I write about it, I don't know, it might take me quite some time to do. But it's a film which asks certain kinds of questions that I find very interesting. And which I haven't yet fully realised, because that's me.. but someone like Beng Huat or someone who works in film might say something more. Dr. Teo: But I think there's a certain implication in your remarks about academics, and I suppose the implication there is that academics are a different breed altogether, from other writers. But why should that be the case? I think academics address issues that other writers can raise as well. But from my own point of view, when I look at these films I think you touched on the issues very clearly, you know, these are new kinds of films, and personally as a Malaysian myself, I'm actually from Malaysia too, I have a kind of a personal interest in these films, in the sense that they are different from Malaysian films made in the past, and what I find exciting about them is also that they seem to point to a genuinely Malaysian cinema, as opposed to, you know, Malay films. I mean previously, prior to the rise of the new wave, this is what we call 'new wave', you only had, you know, Malay film. I mean, there are many types of Malay films of course but, essentially it had to be spoken in Malay, and featuring Malaysian actors and so on. And now you have a new group, a new generation of people coming up, and they're shooting films in Chinese, in all kinds of dialects and you know, Indian languages and then it seemed to me to generally point to a new type of Malaysian film that is quite different from our expectation of Malaysian cinema in the past. And as an academic I try to study this, as kind of a social phenomena. It's not all too different from other writers would want to look at it, so why should there be that divide? And you say it's very new, yes it is very new, but it is something quite exciting I think, and it's new, but it's also not so new in the sense that the sort of films that they're making, I mean alot of allusions have been made to Tsai Ming-Liang and Ho Shau Sian, and Taiwanese cinema and other types of films and so on. So there is that kind of a tradition, which Malaysian filmmakers are now tapping into and they are making it in their own way I think. And making it really interesting. Moderator: Any other academics would like to add in? Prof. Chua: Actually if you see a whole bunch of films from Malaysia, yours coming in(?) (22:18), Amir's.. Chui Mui: James.. Prof. Chua: Yasmin and all of them.. I mean it becomes, there is actually enough body of work to actually deal with the difference. To deal with the difference not necessarily just in preference, not just in terms of the directors, alright? But just in term of the representations of Malaysia. For example, The Gravel Road is a whole different kind of film from what you've just shown, which is very different from Sepet, because you know, and which is very different from The Big Durian. So this question earlier on about what is Malaysian film, you know, you kind of have to take out the national essentialiam, and you just see it.. But nevertheless these filmmakers do live in, arguably the same environment, but each one has a very different kind of relationship to the environment that they're in. And each one has different motivations to do what they're doing, right? And the difference itself becomes an interesting commentary on, if you take film as a kind of reflection, that there is a reference called Malaysia, cause you know, you can of course take film as a film text completely, eternally held together, without worry about the reference. But if you think that there is a reference called Malaysia, then I think it's a really interesting image of who comes up with "What is Malaysia?", compared to what you get everyday in The Straits Times, that drones on and on about politics, about economy, about you know, race relation in a particular way, you know? So I mean, that's the point, I mean in a certain sense of a sociology of aesthetics, it actually has a whole different kind of, there's a different Malaysia that is at play rather than this dull, boring, you know, everyday economic development, who's gonna be the either minister next, I mean..? Audience: Sometimes Malaysians or even Singaporeans make films that I think most of you make films intended for Malaysians right, but then most of your intended audience actually don't get to watch it, either because they don't like it or they don't have access to it, right? So I want to ask you specifically, how much do you know about your audience, who are your audience and who watches them, who goes there and then do you go around universities and show your films, and how accessible are your films if people want to watch it in Malaysia? Chui Mui: For example, Love Conquers All, it was released last year 21 December and there was quite some publicity because of the win in Pusan, and normally Pusan is not so known in Malaysia but because Andy Lau was getting an award and so there were reports of Pusan everyday. And then suddenly in the end there's a Malaysian film winning the big prize, and so the publicity was actually quite high and there's quite alot of writeup, especially in the Chinese press. But when the film was showing, the box office was not that great, now it's not as good as The Gravel Road which you really have the community support, that quite alot of Indians they go because it's the first Indian film in like 20 years. Of the Chinese community, at that time at the same time they had this Takeshi's film with Su Chi (26:13), I forgot, The Confession of Pain? (Moderator adds in another title.) Yah there were quite a lot more other films because it's Christmas and New Year. Prof. Chua: The one with Tony Leong and Takesh(?) (26:24) Audience: Yah, it's Confession of Pain. Chui Mui: Confession of Pain. Yah so, it's like people rather go to see Tony Leong and Su Chi (26:30) and Takesh (26:32). So it was not so successful, but it was bought by Astro and so it was shown in the box office and also actually last month it was shown like five times. I guess by now quite alot of people have seen it, so I guess for most Malaysians they would still find it boring. And also the ending too puzzling. I think they think it's an interesting film but I don't think many of them would like it. Moderator: Okay, just want to make the last comment before we end the session that I think you would have a good audience of overseas Singaporeans and Malaysians in the UK and the US, people would want to feel the clutter(?) (27:20) of the equatorial wreath(?) (27:22), the __ (27:23) tremour of the bus is about nostalgia and identity politics because they don't get it over there. I think that to sort of limit the sort of category the nation state is a little bit constrictive, because I would feel that this is something that I could associate with and maybe like the restaurants in the States and the UK, you should call it Singapore-Malaysian films. Chui Mui: Okay.. Moderator: So with that thank you very much for your participation in this session. (applause) You got an announcement to make? Bee Thiam: Yah, before you guys go there are some announcements. There are still screenings going on, at the respective places, at the respective times, today and tomorrow. And if you guys are interested to get the short films of Chui Mui it is available here as well. So I'll just run through what titles we have, and how much it is. 3 Films from Tan Chui Mui is going at $20, Singapore Shorts is going at $30, Royston's Shorts $25. We have three feature films from Vietnam as well, When the Tenth Month Come $30, Nostalgia for the Countryside $30 and Travelling Circus $30. And we'll be putting up online as well Love Conquers All that would be retailling at $25. So if you're interested, you can either place your order with us now, or you can go to visit our website next week. Alrite? Okay, thank you very much. (more applause)

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